---
tags: vTaiwan
---
# 0117 vTaiwan for All
- 時間：19:00-21:00
- 地點：[摩茲工寮](https://maps.app.goo.gl/ffVv5CtSSH9tp2mp8) 100台北市中正區八德路一段94號3樓
- 講者：Peter/ Madeline
- 活動流程：
- 19:00-20:00 講者分享 Sharing of Speakers
- 20:00-21:00 綜合討論 General Discussion
- 參加者簽到：Peter Madeline Eli Josh Crystal Vickie
[TOC]
## 講者介紹 Intro of Speaker
- Peter
- Peter is a graduate student studying IP and competition law in National Taiwan University, and serves as research assistant in Academia Sinica for AI and information technology law. Besides his job and academic works, he also participates in g0v, a civic tech community in Taiwan. The project , vTaiwan, which he participates just won the OpenAI grant of Democratic Input to AI with a proposal cooperated with Chatham House.
- Madeline Daepp （中文名音：ㄉㄞˋㄉㄜˊㄌㄧㄣˊ）
- Researcher in Microsoft Research
- http://www.madeleinedaepp.com/
## 自我介紹 Self-intro
- Peter
- Graduate student
- vTaiwan /g0v student
- Madeline
- Researcher of vTaiwan
- Vickie
- Reporter
- Fixer
- Josh
- PHD student
- Crystal
- Law and optical engineering
- Robin
- PHD in NTU
- Germany
- [林博仁(Buo-ren, Lin)](https://brlin.me)
- (ex-)Devops engineer
- Involved in the Sunflower Student Movement <sub>(just a little bit...)</sub>
- Interested (but with little to no involvement) in vTaiwan et. cetera. topics
- Amos
- New comer for vTaiwan
- Veteran
- Open Culture Foundation
- 江宜臻
- Study MS Milan
- Industrial design
- Eli
- Sociology
- social movement study
- being activist
- LU
- self learning
- pholosophy
- taisukef
- from Japan
- Enginner
- Code for Japan
- Open data Evangelists
- 子深(Tzu-Sheng Kuo)
- come back to vote
- based in USA
-
- Irvin
- Host and volunteer of the MozTW space
- Taiwanese Localization and promotion of Mozilla Firefox
- sylin
## 活動場地介紹 Venue introduction
- [摩茲工寮 MozTW space website](https://moztw.space)
- [介紹簡報 Introduction presentation](https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9BU22m9p7kqMFVidmRMdFFNN1U/view?usp=drive_link&resourcekey=0-nBBaU3rsy6U8e8DOBCmj4A)
- [vTaiwan 工作組 HackMD](https://g0v.hackmd.io/@tmonk/rJHYWR9S4/%2Ff9c4pS_TQjClh0g6wCJ8iw?type=book)
## 講者分享 Sharing of Speakers
### "Introduction of vTaiwan" by Peter
[vTaiwan 介紹 Introduction presentation](https://g0v.hackmd.io/@tmonk/rJHYWR9S4/https%3A%2F%2Fdocs.google.com%2Fpresentation%2Fd%2F1nAEBAbF7dTW0itIMp2JX-yapf6N3sILowZ721zZTTaQ%2Fedit%3Fusp%3Dsharing?type=book)
* Originated from the 2014 Sunflower Studio Movement
* Government x 數位法規調適平台 x g0v
#### 數位工具、多方參與、凝聚共識
* Allow everybody to participate with the discussion
* Allow consensus to be created
#### 政策制定的比較<br>Comparision on different policy making methods
* 以前：專家引領
* vTaiwan
* Community-oriented
* Link different kinds of stakeholders together
#### (Lifecycles from question to Law)
↓ repeat ↓
Question > Opinion > Convergence > Draft > Law
↑ response ↓
#### (Participation in an open way)
#### (OpenAI: Democratic inputs to AI)
* vTaiwan is awarded 10,0000USD(?) grant from OpenAI
* Report: https://vtaiwan-openai-2023.vercel.app/Report_%20Recursive%20Public.pdf
* Mentioned in the [OpenAI blogpost](https://openai.com/blog/democratic-inputs-to-ai-grant-program-update)
#### (How to involve)
* (Contacts)
* (Events)
### Activity:
#### Ground rules
* All learners all teachers
* Think space make space
* 留意自己發言時間是否太多
* 鼓勵他人參與討論
* Gestures
* 舉一隻手指（有話要說）
* 舉二隻手指（有現在的話題想要回應）
#### Preference between discussion in-person or remote
Most vs few.
#### Preference between discussion in English or non-English(native language)?
Few vs. most.
* (vTaiwan):
* Dilemma as international participates may only communicate in English
* (Interpreter):
* May not be neutral
* ~~Maybe there are (AI) technology solutions to put me out of my job~~
* People who argue in English may be seen as more privileged
* (TBD):
* In Chinese is more efficient
* In English we can make more friends
* (TBD):
* Useing English for
* Coutesy to international participants
* To help
* (TBD):
* 因為地處於台灣所以才應該用原生語言
* 使用科技（大語言模型(LLMs)）來改進中文對英文翻譯的情境流失問題
* (TBD):
* L10N and I18N and what to do next?
#### Government or NGO(community) compositions
* (TBD)
* (Government): This event lack of government presense
* (TBD)
* (TBD)
* Facilitance with the government and the collabortion in civil society is both inportant
* (TBD)
* 公務員可能會腐化
* 社群可能會變成 stale
* Keep the mobility to prevent the
* (TBD)
* (TBD)
* 林博仁（政府偏社群）
* 完全沒有（部份政府機關組成）的全社群可能會被多部門的政府機關無視
* 全政府主導可能會被政敵全力打擊
* 大部分社群，少部份政府機關參與會比較好
#### 充滿領導者或沒有領導者
Vary evenly(circled)
* (TBA)
* 林博仁
* 希望是真的有貢獻的人單人類似領導者的地位
* 但是不希望透過不同作法達成相同目的的群體最後一定要只留一個下來，各團隊可以（在某種程度上）盡量合作一些部份但是其他部份就順其自然發展就好
### Plus and delta
* (TBA):
* Plus: Liked the activity to show two side of different issue
* Delta: Self-introduction too long
* (TBA):
* Plus: The interpreter-san works great
* Delta: Wish have more time in the discussion
* 林博仁
* Plus: The discussions are inspiring
* Delta: I'm personally unable to keep up with the topics, hopefully I can be able to participate more in the future events
* (TBA):
* Plus: New/different ways in the discussions
* Delta: Self-introduction is too long +1
* Interpreter-san
* Plus: Knowing about vTaiwan(thanks to Madeline)
* Mandeline:
* Plus: 很高興大家今天熱情參與
* Delta: Wish has more time
### 三個提問
* 更多人改成用中文講了
* 大家都是主持人(facilitator)，大家可以進行主持的責任
* 比較強烈的意見是可以先成型的
## 綜合討論 General Discussion
:::info
The English translation of the questions are provided independently by Buo-ren, Lin, refer the original text to avoid any confusions.
:::
### 新的國會與政府結構，會對 vTaiwan 產生什麼影響嗎？<br>(Will the new parliament and government structure have any influence to the vTaiwan project?)
### 政府是否會有更高的意願來處理？<br>(Will the (new) government have more intention of involving (the vTaiwan project)?)
### (問題沒聽到)<br>(To be addressed...)
- if discussion in vTaiwan cannot be hear by governer, all efforts will be in vain.
- being bridge between government and civic society
- let government hear more from people
### any relation with power holder?
- Eli: some participant have connection
- Josh: challenge we face hosting event
- more difficult than online discussion after pandemic
- people care about political issue but dare not to discuss with other people
- sylin: first feel cautious
- Eli: vTaiwan achieve some success based on some political capital, and to move forward
- helping from such as think tank
- syline: participant coming back
- open AI grant
- admin issue
### 活動
- 規則
1. 每個人都是學生亦是老師，有所知亦有所不知
2. 掌握時間
3. 一指：有話要說 二指：想回應
- 結論
- 大家都很專注在活動
- 有此參與者的意見常常相反
### 活動二：plus & delta
#### 優點 plus
- 選擇兩極的活動很有趣，看到台灣人很喜歡站在中間
- 學習新的東西。看到東西以 HackMD 共筆來記錄很棒。之前參加其他 NGO 缺乏共同記錄的方式，會將這個辦法帶回去使用。
- 喜歡今天用移動的方式來表達意見。這就像是 vTaiwan 用行動來改善台灣一樣
- 口譯很棒，拯救用英文表達困難的我
- 可以討論
- 享受帶領思考的過程。一直都在思考要怎麼讓大家在活動都講話。今天的帶領方式給我很多的想法。
- 口譯：沒有接這份工作，不會知道 vTaiwan 這組織。為台灣有這種公民組織
- M：感謝今天有機會來參加
#### 改進 delta
- 可以多一點面向
- 兩極的活動有時沒辦法涵蓋太多的討論
- self intro 太長
- 三個關鍵字
- 讓前言再短一點
- 想聽到 Madeline 多一點的觀點分享, 可以促進 vTaiwan 成員思考
- echo 想聽更多 M 的觀點
- 希望時間更長，活動很有趣
- 口譯：AI 可能會取代我
- M：時間不夠。身為外國人，不該由她來教大家做事。
### Madeline 的三個分享
- vTaiwan 主旨雖然是用討論來改變，但是活動中的移動動很少。還有大家開始用中文表達了
- 大家都是主持人
- 極端意見是可以很有建議性的。今天許多有意思的意見都來自最後面的意見